I love your article….so right on! We can truly be appropriately patriotic only when we understand the difference between a human “kingdom” and God´s perfect “KINGDOM”.  They are very different- act differently, use different weapons, and have completely different goals.  Yet, I can appreciate my country´s positive addition to God´s Kingdom.  I can also appreciate God´s hand in keeping the nation better that it would be without God´s help.  I can appreciate the U.S.A.  because it is truly not where my complete allegiance lies.  Thank you for your article.  awesome!!!!

I, too, have struggled with this and can be similarly offended when national, patriotic type holidays and Sunday worship come together. You, I am sure, are more gracious and tolerant than I, but I am trying these daze.

Thank you for addressing this issue.

Paul

Well said, Tom!

Thank you for this excellent article that I identify with very much.your concerns are well stated.
A risk is taken when one is willing to affirm the following:
(1) America is not a Christian nation nor has she ever been.
(2) We can not bring America “back to God” for it is impossible to bring back to a place she has never been.
(3) Not sure the 4th of July should be celebrated in the church. After
all if in the evangelical churches I am familliar with I have never heard mentioned the celebration of MLK’s birthday or Reformation
Sunday.
It sound not be necessary to say I do love America for she has given me freedom and opportunities I would not have known in many other countries.  It’s just that love for the kingdom of God
so far exceeds “nationalism.

Thank you for the opportunity to express
suv agape
Jerry.

Love it, Tom. This could be fodder for a great book!

will be passing this on to others and you’ve I inspired me to write my own reflection.

Mark

I share your thoughtfulness in regard to this Sunday.

I have used before Kipling’s poem, “Recessional” on such Sundays.

Also I have been directed to this old hymn,

O GOD OF EARTH AND ALTAR

O God of earth and altar,
bow down and hear our cry,
our earthly rulers falter,
our people drift and die;
the walls of gold entomb us,
the swords of scorn divide,
take not thy thunder from us,
but take away our pride.

From all that terror teaches,
from lies of tongue and pen,
from all the easy speeches
that comfort cruel men,
from sale and profanation
of honor, and the sword,
from sleep and from damnation,
deliver us, good Lord!

Tie in a living tether
the prince and priest and thrall,
bind all our lives together,
smite us and save us all;
in ire and exultation
aflame with faith, and free,
lift up a living nation,
a single sword to thee.
G.K. Chesterton, 1906

Oh, doc ... this is a good one! Better barricade the door to your office less the super-patriots show up with a bucket of tar, a rail, and some feathers to demonstrate how real red-blooded Americans feel about their Christian nation.

This one has some links to some of my personal rants on the subject:

http://lajuntablog.blogspot.com/2011/06/god-and-independence-day.html

Keep up the Good Works!

Thanks Tom,

For me I see no personal disconnect between my “faith” voice and my “patriotic” voice. It resides in balance and an understanding of our respective place in history and God’s unfolding love story. My colleagues in Cuba, Algeria, Iran, China etc. who I interact with almost daily would stand up loudly and proclaim, “God Bless America” as they struggle to simply worship in safety. Yet I am brought to tears as I view government policy that values power and resource over human life and compassion. Yet it is about balance.

I look forward to worship on Sunday and then on Monday my flag will fly high and I will pause along with my family and friends and honor this great nation and those who have labored over the years to make it the best place they could. The most challenging thing about writing this is I find myself asking, “am I doing everything I can to make this a nation that honors God AND that honors all my brothers and sisters around the world regardless of color, creed or religion?”

Thanks Dr. Oord,

I think that this is a more balanced view between the two poles you described. I do have a hard time though backing up a patriotism in the worship place. In some ways should not the local Church be an embassy of the Kingdom of God here on earth? Territory belonging to a different sovereign power if you will? I think patriotism is a less divisive issue theologically and ecclesiologically than citizenship. Whose are we? In what kingdom or nation is our first allegiance? I think the best way for the local Church to recognize July 4th is to point to how much better the Kingdom of God is than what the world has to offer.

Tom:

It looks to me like your developed awareness of the U.S. as a sometimes amoral/immoral nation is just the kind of awareness that our founding fathers had, and thus a motivation for their strong separation between church and state. (Sadly, the most recent Republican administration took great pains to erode that separation.)

It has always struck me that it’s not so much the nation that God blesses, but the presence of just and equal participation of its citizens in the community process.  Thus, the U.S. has been blessed because it uses a form of government which indeed allows citizens lots of participation—democracy.  Not that other forms of government can’t get such participation from citizens but, as an empirical matter, democracy seems to have done it best.  Therefore, the reality of that kind of participation is where the blessing of God has come. I say, ‘God bless Democracies!’  Happily, the U.S. is one, so God blesses it.

Montgomery
SNU

Hi Brint! It may seem a nitpick, but the United States is not a democracy, though that is a common misconception. It’s a republic. They are very different forms of government. Please see Federalist #10 and Federalist #63 for Madison’s/Hamilton’s views on that ‘issue.’ Also, the matter of democracy v. the republican form of government is addressed somewhat in Article 4 of the federal constitution.

Tom,

I appreciate and share the view you take in the article and I too find myself experiencing a tension when it comes to patriotism and being a Christian in the USA.

Historically, any governmental policies that have crept toward nationalism inevitably turn into xenophobia and racism. The European wars from the 17th through the 20th century were at times driven by extreme nationalistic tendencies and hundreds of thousands of lives were lost as a result. In our own country (USA) there has not been a single decade (even up to today) of our existence that has been free from some form of official governmental policies that deny basic human rights to some people and ethnic group. These policies are not founded in any way on Judeo-Christian principles.

I have a negatively visceral reaction to Christians who place “patriotism” above God’s Word and Christian ethics and morals (or confuse and muddle the two); who praise the good while apparently overlooking the empirical evidence of corruption and unchristlike behaviors and policies of this country.

Yet, I am grateful for the freedoms we enjoy even at times when those freedoms seem to be illusory. I can still preach the gospel, worship God,pray,and fellowship in a community of faith with like-minded folks without having to pay the price of persecution that occurs in other countries. I just don’t confuse these means of God’s grace and blessings with God’s endorsement of the government and its policies.

We have the opportunity in this country to do tremendous good and reveal the Kingdom of God as a reality to our culture but that does not happen by us Christians demanding our rights and trying to tell others how to live their lives. It comes by us first living our lives as Christlike disciples, loving and caring for the damaged, broken, abused, and confused people around us. It does not come by screaming at gay people or supporting laws and policies that deny the basic rights we have as Christians to exercise our beliefs to others who believe and act differently than we do even if we hold that behavior or belief immoral. As simplistic as it sounds, we need to be reminded that the harshest words that Jesus spoke were not to the sinners and outcasts of society but to the religious establishment (that would be us in case it needs to be spelled out directly). Until we get that right and love sinners to the point of laying down our lives for them (as Jesus did) then we do not and will not have anything that resembles a “Christian” nation.

DinkyDauBilly:

To check my use of the term, I looked up democracy in my Collins English Dictionary (10th ed. 2009), and it notes that a democracy is “government by the people or their elected representatives.”  Other sources I checked said more or less the same thing. 

So, as per my original claim, the U.S. is a paradigm example of a democracy, even though we use the representative version of it.  Those two governmental structures are not dichotomous, as you seem to imply.

~b

Honoria Groves writes…

Dear Brother Oord:
I appreciate very much your regular messages, particularly those on Wesleyanism.  I have been a Canadian Nazarene for 46 years and prior to that was a Methodist in England.
The thoughts you shared today on patriotism resonated with me and I can appreciate your feelings toward those who so vociferously proclaim their nation is special to God,  but we cannot assume responsibility for the actions and attitudes of our country’s politicians.  As a Canadian I think we sometimes are not assertive enough in our patriotism and tend to stand back to observe what other countries (USA in particular), do.  Pride and gratitude for our homeland, I feel, is a natural and positive attribute.  But it should not blind us to the faults and failings of our governments and their sometime
misinterpretation or abuse of God’s perceived will for their nation.  Also, it is incumbent upon us to seek His guidance in the operation of our fiscal responsibility at the ballot box.
Primarily, God is concerned with personal and individual obedience to His Divine Will and our response to the prompting of His Holy Spirit in our daily lives which also affects our interest and compassion toward those in need or suffering of any kind. 
These are just the humble thoughts of an 88 year old servant of Jesus Christ.
God bless you richly,
Honoria Groves (Mrs.)

Hi Brint! Sorry, but the ‘democracy’ v. ‘republic’ thing is rooted in what the Framers thought of the two forms of government. Article 4 clearly differentiates between the two, and it’s a matter very clearly addressed in the Federalist Papers, which, along with the DoI, the Constitution, and deTocqueville’s “Democracy in America” (how’s that for confusing the issue), form the core documents essential for understanding the nature of America and our government. As long as we’re confusing things, there’s “Jeffersonian democracy”, which is rather elitist by any standards, and “Jacksonian democracy”, which plays shamelessly to the hoi polloi. Despite all that, ‘republican’ and ‘democracy’ are two very different forms of government, modern dictionaries aside. Why, we even express this in that hallowed loyalty oath, the Pledge of Allegiance.

Do you really think God likes democracies? Can that view be supported scripturally? God strikes me as a very authoritarian “my way or the highway” type, free will notwithstanding.

Thanks, Dr. Oord.  You have helped be to develop my thoughts on the matter, as well.

Dinky - You evidently don’t know who B. Monty is!  Actually, the US is a democratic republic.  It can be stated “Democracy” without “republic” but it cannot be stated “republic” without “democracy”.

Tom,

Thanks for your appropriate and timely thoughts.  If I could push you a little further on this issue—you wrote, “’If I find expressing national pride appropriate for others, why can’t I affirm a proper place for national pride among U.S. citizens?’ I see no good reason to have a double standard on this issue.”  National pride outside of the church is one issue but national pride within the church is not nearly as benign as you suggest.  I would submit that the difference between our patriotism and other countries may lie in the US’s position of power in the world.  While granted, the US prides itself on helping out the poor and disenfranchised (albeit at a MUCH lower percentage than most developed countries), the US spends a much larger and an obscene amount of its vast financial resources on military might that ensures that its agenda gets accomplished.  While far from a perfect parallel, the Roman Empire of Jesus’ day may be analogous. 

The church’s relationship to an empire has historically always been tricky.  Pre-Constantine, there was a reason that the early Christians were killed for proclaiming, “Jesus is Lord” and not, “Caesar is Lord.”  When one lives in an empire, our highest loyalties must be to that empire or we will face the wrath of it. As the German Christians in the early 20th Century learned the hard way, it is easy to lose one’s prophetic voice when you get too cozy with the empire.  Today, the vast majority of US Christians have no problem co-opting Jesus’ teachings on violence in order to bless the US military’s agenda.  What is even more frightening is that we don’t even recognize that this is problem.  Ever since Emperor Constantine, the interests of the church and state have become convoluted.

In this sense, I think patriotism to the US in the context of a church is a very, very dangerous thing.  And, in my opinion, this is not nearly as much a struggle for our brothers and sisters in Ghana, Venezuela, or the Netherlands.  My prayer for this weekend is that we will begin to re-discover how truly revolutionary it is to say, “Jesus is Lord.” 

Blessings on you my friend!

-Dana

Hi Kurt! Nope, don’t know who B. Monty is. Don’t care none, neither. He’s arguing that the United States is a democracy. It ain’t. He cites a definition of ‘democracy’, which shows the difference between a direct democracy and a representative democracy. Neither is a ‘republic.’ You are correct with your statement “... “Democracy” without “republic” but it cannot be stated “republic” without “democracy”...” but nonetheless, a ‘republic’ is not a democracy within the context of Monty’s statement(s). He needs to clarify his thinking, or at least his statements, on this. I suppose that’s presumptuous on my part, given that he is apparently someone of some import, but there you have it (prolly that Jacksonian hoi polloi thing coming out.)

Meanwhile: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/28/compromise-on-pledge-allegiance-in-oregon-town-has-some-seeing-red/

Perhaps they will start lynching one another soon?

And do we have any Scriptural support for God preferring democracies? I can’t seem to find any democracies in the bible, though there are a lot of monarchies. Perhaps this is at the root of Israel’s current tribulations with our Muslim brothers? That Knesset thing violates biblical tradition? Just askin’.

John Oord wrote:

“I appreciated the blog and have over the last 10 years felt less and less of an ability to be one that thinks that God inherently favors the U.S. over other countries.  How we show love and create improvements to the wellbeing of the earth and its inhabitants is in my opinion more of an indication of the “Christianness” of our nation, and possibly the way to find favor with God.  But even in this I find some problems. 
Thanks for stirring the intelectual pot again.

John

I’m incredibly grateful that we live in a country where we can have discussions such as this one without fear that our liberties or lives will be taken away.  All nations have in ways been blessed by God.  We are not more uniquely positioned to receive special blessings from God than any other nation, but let us loudly celebrate in private worship and in corporate worship how grateful we are that God has blessed us as a nation.  This does not minimize that we should pursue change where we feel it needs it, but that we are grateful that we can pursue change and voice our pleasure and displeasure as we see fit.  God bless the USA.

This is a noteworthy issue and I appreciate you providing dialogue around this subject.

There are two themes I wish to comment on from your blog post:  Christ and Country, and God’s blessings.

Church and American politics:
The lines between living the life of Christ and living the life of an American citizen have blurred to the point where many define and understand them synonymously, if not interchangeably.  As a result, Americans often equate Christianity to conservative politics, for which I consider heretical.  I suppose this synonymy has some influence over the guy next to me at the football game drinking a beer who says “Amen!” after the military fly-over.

I don’t consider it inherently wrong to celebrate politics within the context of the Church, but I have real concerns when we fail to distinguish what is appropriate for our citizenship from that of our calling to embody Christlikeness.  This may not be a good example, but I have often wondered if Christians would be offended if the American flag were removed from their church sanctuary throughout the year.  Does the American flag’s presence, the celebration of our military men and women, the recognition of kids in Boy Scouts, etc., (specifically occurring in a worship service) dilute or enhance our focus on Christlikeness?  For many, if not most, I think it deepens the confusion around this subject of “Christ and Country,” and I prefer there be less emphasis of such activities during corporate worship venues.  This isn’t because I am not a patriot or that I am not grateful of the sacrifice of all those who serve our country in military, but primarily because we fail to center our celebration on the message of Christ to the extent we should or could.

God’s Blessings:
My upbringing did not entail the belief that America’s “blessings” were the culmination of God’s preference for the USA over other countries.  Moreover, I don’t recall being taught that the USA was a “chosen” nation, except in the context that God chooses ALL NATIONS for redemption of sin.

Understandably, the term “blessing” means different things to different individuals (albeit nations), but it seems inconsequential WHAT we define blessings to be at least for this discussion.  What IS relevant is our response to a blessing.  Whether our blessings are joy, peace, love, praise, or material…what makes anything qualify as a blessing is not what they are intrinsically, or even what we get out of them.  Rather, I submit that a blessing is greatly dependent upon our response to God.  For example, someone living impoverished with very little materially can be full of joy in their heart.  I also believe this explains why the Apostle Paul was genuinely thankful for his many sufferings.  Due to Paul being absolutely centered in Christlikeness, his sufferings were indeed directly linked to how he understood God’s blessings in his life (examples include II Cor 1:3-11; Phil 3:10; Col 1:24).

To this end, there is no need to be ashamed or feel guilty about what or how blessings are applied, as long as our response to God (and consequentially God’s creation) is centered in Christ.  Without such centeredness, there is no blessing.

By the way, this isn’t an American thing, it’s a Christlikeness thing.

Thanks, Tom, for an intriguing article. Here in Kenya, each public event - such as the choir concerts where I sing tenor - begin with the playing of the national anthem. In parts of the world where tribalism has been the cause of so much killing, nationalism can be seen as an effective remedy. Of course, Kenya does not have the means of projecting its power beyond its borders…

Tom:
I jumped into this discussion rather late but wanted anyway to add my thoughts. After living outside the US for many years, I have tried to integrate both my “Born in the USA” feelings and my desire to be a “World Christian”. It is not easy, as you have already stated, but I think I did find one way to express both my love for country and my fear of falling into chauvinism. I invited one of our elected Idaho State officials to speak at our church on July 3rd. Ron Crane, our state treasurer, spoke on the theme of how his love for God and love for country has been his motivation for a lifetime of public service. He did an excellent job ! I think that this expression of patriotism is one way that we can celebrate July 4th in a church setting.    Dave

This is a good point Dr. Oord. I would consider myself very patriotic. I have no problem with services like these, but at the same time I do recognize the fact that this country isn’t the only one that matters to God. I agree that this country has not always done its best to honor God and his law. I think it is doing a rather poor job at it right now actually, which sometimes worries me. But at the same time, this country has done a lot to help others out – the oppressed, poor, etc. I have no doubt that God shows us blessing for this, and I think it is good to ask for that blessing. If we hope to continue helping others and honoring God as a country, I think it is crucial to keep that national pride – lest we forget who we are and what we are about. I think national pride is a good thing and will keep us on the right track, and I am glad that our churches are willing to affirm that and demonstrate that. If Christians no longer want to recognize our national pride then why would our nation want to recognize the Christian God?

I really like this post, I have spent much time thinking about the dynamics of what it means to be both a Christian and an American. In the Philosophy of Religion course here at NNU I wrote my term paper on how one could not pursue both a Christian lifestyle and the lifestyle of the “American Dream”. It is a dangerous game we play when we view America as more Christian and better than other nations, when I often see the opposite to be true. I might go so far to say that it is harder to be an authentic Christian in America than anywhere else in the world.