{"id":6081,"date":"2021-09-13T11:42:44","date_gmt":"2021-09-13T18:42:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/blog\/archives\/"},"modified":"2021-10-31T08:21:37","modified_gmt":"2021-10-31T15:21:37","slug":"gods-knowing-isnt-causal","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/blog\/archives\/gods-knowing-isnt-causal","title":{"rendered":"God&#8217;s Knowing Isn&#8217;t Causal"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Open and relational theology says God doesn&#8217;t foreknow everything that will happen in the future. If God did foreknow all with certainty, the future would be settled. A completely settled future is incompatible with our making free choices.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-medium\"><a href=\"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" src=\"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God-300x225.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-6083\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God-768x576.jpg 768w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God-600x450.jpg 600w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/pg-22-God.jpg 1368w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Some hear this and think open and relational thinkers are saying God&#8217;s foreknowing would <strong><em>cause<\/em><\/strong> the future to be settled. But this isn&#8217;t what most open and relational thinkers believe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Open and relational thinkers believe God knows what <em>might <\/em>happen. But God can\u2019t be certain about what free creatures will decide or what random events will occur until those decisions have been made or events happen. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>God doesn\u2019t have \u201cdefinite exhaustive foreknowledge,\u201d to use a phrase common among scholars.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Argument in Plain Language<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The argument against God foreknowing goes like this\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If God foreknows all that will occur and God can\u2019t make mistakes, nothing could happen other than what God foreknows. But to be free, creatures must choose among live options. They must have real say-so or make genuine choices among possibilities. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, if God knows the future, creatures can\u2019t be free.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let me put it another way. If God foreknows all with certainty, what we <em>think<\/em> is an open future must actually be closed. Instead of a realm of live options, the future must be complete, decided, and settled. Instead of being able to make free decisions about life and love, we\u2019re merely experiencing a simulation, like the Matrix. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If God foreknows all events that will occur, freedom, love, and randomness are myths.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A Chocolate Ice Cream Example<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Suppose we\u2019re at a self-serve ice cream parlor on a warm summer day. We see Andee pick up her peppermint-striped bowl and walk toward the ice cream. She\u2019s about to select one of three flavors: chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Suppose Andee\u2019s not sure which to choose. They\u2019re all delicious. Decisions, decisions, decisions! Her mouth waters.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now suppose in some mysterious way it\u2019s already been settled, Andee gets chocolate. It\u2019s not a matter of whether she <em>may <\/em>get vanilla or strawberry. Andee <em>must <\/em>get chocolate. She\u2019s not free to choose otherwise, because it\u2019s been determined.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Notice the difference between <em>may <\/em>and <em>must <\/em>in this example.<em> May <\/em>assumes more than one live option; Andee may get any flavor. <em>Must <\/em>requires Andee to act one way. If she <em>must <\/em>get chocolate, she\u2019s not free to do otherwise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Who Settled the Future?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The question arises: \u201cWho or what decided that Andee\u2019s getting chocolate?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>People who think God predestines life will answer, \u201cGod settled it.\u201d Those who think existence is entirely determined by atoms, genes, or neurons say, \u201cNature settled it.\u201d Those who think we\u2019re determined by culture or upbringing point to environments and circumstances as determiners. People who think we\u2019re robots might blame our computer programs or programmer. One might even say, \u201cIt\u2019s blind fate.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here\u2019s the key idea: saying God foreknows Andee gets chocolate doesn\u2019t <em>cause <\/em>Andee to get chocolate. Knowing doesn\u2019t force anyone. Instead, God can only be certain about some future event if that future has already been settled, fixed, or complete. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>God&#8217;s knowledge of past and present events and of future possibilities doesn&#8217;t cause them to occur.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It doesn\u2019t matter <em>how <\/em>it was settled. Maybe it was the atoms, Andee\u2019s upbringing, evolution, or fate. Or some combination of these. What matters is something or someone settled the matter before Andee walked to the ice cream. She\u2019s getting chocolate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-medium\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1948609371\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"200\" height=\"300\" src=\"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-200x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-6061\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-200x300.jpg 200w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-683x1024.jpg 683w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-768x1152.jpg 768w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-1366x2048.jpg 1366w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3-600x900.jpg 600w, https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/Final-Cover-3.jpg 1682w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 200px) 100vw, 200px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>The point: God can only be certain about a future event if it has already been determined. But future events are not determined, because they have not yet occurred. (For a brief explanation on why Molinism fails to help, see footnote<a href=\"#_edn1\">[i]<\/a>.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Free to Choose Chocolate or Something Else<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Open and relational theists reject the idea God knows with certainty Andee chooses chocolate. God could only foreknow Andee gets chocolate if her doing so had somehow already been determined. Open and relational thinkers believe Andee is free.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>A settled future has no live options from which Andee can choose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>(Most of the previous text is an excerpt from <em>Open and Relational Theology<\/em>. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1948609371\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Click for more<\/a> on the book.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#_ednref1\">[i]<\/a> One alternative to open and relational theology goes by the name \u201cmiddle knowledge\u201d or \u201cMolinism.\u201d It says God chose to create this world among the possible worlds God could have created. When choosing, God looked at how all worlds would play out. God can look into the future, says Molinism, and foresee every future decision.<br>\u00a0 Debates on the details of middle knowledge are technical, such as the status of counterfactuals and the grounding problem. But we don\u2019t need the details to see a problem with middle knowledge. Our story about Andee and ice cream illustrates it.<br>\u00a0\u00a0The middle knowledge view says God can foreknow with certainty that Andee gets chocolate. If a mistake-free God foreknows Andee gets chocolate, Andee <em>must<\/em> get chocolate. God can\u2019t make a mistake, so Andee\u2019s not free to do otherwise. From the perspective of open and relational theologians (and others), Molinism is incoherent. There\u2019s never a time (even before God created our world) the outcomes of free decisions can be known in advance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Open and relational theology says God doesn&#8217;t foreknow everything that will happen in the future. If God did foreknow all with certainty, the future would be settled. A completely settled future is incompatible with our making free choices. Some hear this and think open and relational thinkers are saying God&#8217;s foreknowing would cause the future [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[9,10],"tags":[28,202,348,362,363,669,6609,7103,7104],"yst_prominent_words":[1224,1226,1232,1269,1271,1278,5928,6481,6593],"class_list":["post-6081","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-open_and_relational_theology","category-theology_and_science","tag-open-theology","tag-foreknowledge","tag-foreknow","tag-luis-de-molina","tag-molinism","tag-open-and-relational-theology","tag-foreknowing","tag-molinist","tag-chocolate-ice-cream"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6081","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6081"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6081\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6081"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6081"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6081"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thomasjayoord.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=6081"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}