Way to take Thanksgiving out of the stomach and put it into the mind. Hope you have a Thanksgiving that is rich in “Essential Kenosis”.

A great perspective of the varying views of theology and the importance of having an essential kenosis view point.  My family fits in every category you described, so it can be disconerning at the Thanksgiving table.  But, I must continue to be a witness in love and empowerment from God that there is more to life.  Thanks for a great perspective, and have a lovely Thanksgiving.

Tom, I’m really hoping you will write a book on Essential Kenosis and Eschatology. If you manage to “give the reason for the hope that you have” (1 Peter 3:15) in a way that enables us to put our hope in God, you will have tackled what I think is the main problem with Essential Kenosis. It would (I sincerely hope) be a huge boast for it’s adoption.

Happy Thanksgiving Tom.

I do thank God for all goodness and don’t think that love allows Him to coerce thereby relieving Him of culpability in evil.

However, I, like Hans, would like to see Essential Kenosis and Eschatology developed. Not that I don’t see hope in EK as it stands, I’m just not really able to articulate it at the moment.

I’m thankful for this blog and that God predestined you (if he even exists) to write this blog.

On the Sunday before New Years I would lead a prayer before my congregation. I asked them to think about every bad thing that happened to them the previous year, every illness, every failure, every tradgey, every loss. The people would look up at me and wonder what I was doing! Then I would say “Now, thank God for having brought you through all of them to today.” 

I see suffering and dying every day. Yet God helps me cope and gives me the opportunity to help those who, for no fault of their own, face death through terminal illness. I kid people by saying, “Living stinks then you die.” Then I qualify that statement. “Our role is to cope and bring comfort to those suffering the consequences of living.” Isn’t this what Jesus was saying, Love God and Love your neighbor as your self.

My thankfulness is that God has brought me through all kinds of near desasters and afforded me the opportunity to help those facing terminal illness through hospice chaplaincy and other means.

Thanks God for your faithfulness and your call upon my life.

Tom,

I would have included Eastern Pantheism in your list of Thanksgiving theologies.

The Eastern Pantheist would not express gratitude to God because in their mind God is not personal.  They would not thank God for personal hardships and trials as they would tend to think of such things as mere illusion or the result of human perception.  Thanksgiving for them might include meditation where oneness with the universe is sought (atman is brahman).  Practicing meditation might also help the pantheist eliminate desire and self focus. And since there is no overall narrative to life, for them Thanksgiving is just another day to be at one with all. 

Anyway, just wanted to kick that out there since Eastern religions are becoming more at home here in the West.

Have a great Thanksgiving!

Wow! Something to really be thankful for. Gods love and our freedom to love just like God. Putting our love into action. What a great Grace this is.

I sat today and witnessed this love at the Room in the Inn/Campus for Human Development in Nashville. Well over 350 meals served. Gods Love was surely present in this group today. The way the people who serve these meals today(like every day of the year) have chosen to love as God loves, by being filled with love for what many may call the least of creation, the poor. 

Moreover, how the poor exemplify Gods Love by teaching me so much about Christ. In each face of the homeless, God is revealed to me daily. The love they have for the staff and each other is their way of being God to all those they touch. The Grace they allow to flow for just a meal and a Church pew to sleep on. Giving openly the love that influences God creation who often have so much.

In this we see just another day that those, many would call the least of Creation become so much to so many. This allowing all of creation to scream with the love of God. Let all thanks be to the creation which we enjoy so much. Mostly the acts we so for all of creation and benefit from creation!

I choose to respond to this blog on thanksgiving theologies because thanksgiving is resonating within my heart even as I reflect upon God’s goodness in these last few weeks.  Additionally, it is the first time I am experiencing thanksgiving in the United States.  So, there is enough reason for me to reflect on thanksgiving.  In looking at the various theologies mentioned I must affirm that Essential Kenosis Theology has appealed to me particularly.  This form of theology appeals to me because it expresses the nature of my experience with God as one who loves and offer me special possibilities for which I am grateful.  In addition I can reflect upon my life twenty five years ago living a life of hatred and resentment.  However, today because of my relationship with God I can positively testify that I have experienced total change.  This is enough to give God thanks.
Dexter

It was interesting reading some of the many different ways people express their gratitude at Thanksgiving time. Sitting around the Thanksgiving table yesterday I could not help but reflect on whether or not there is really one way people should be thankful on Thanksgiving? It feels as though the tradition of Thanksgiving has become something different for almost all people, and many people do not even know why they are saying what they are thankful for. Also, I have been reflecting on what it is we find ourselves thankful for, and what we tell God we are thankful for. Maybe instead of thanking God for the materialistic possessions in our lives we should be thanking him merely for his grace.

We should thank God for many things, even our minds that give us the ability to process through this.
Essential kenosis is a new thought process for me. I am processing through this and look forward to reading your book. It seems that coercion is in play one way or the other. I see your argument with the problem of evil, but does God need to be coerced, albeit by His own nature, in order to love us? Was God forced to love us so He sent His Son? The argument has already been stated that coerced love is not really love.
And as others have inferred in their posts, how does a God who only persuades ensure a final victory? I look forward to the discussion. I am thankful, however, that you are willing to stick your neck out to allow for this discussion. Thanks Tom.

Tom there is a huge part of me that wants to affirm the idea that you are presenting with Essential Kenosis because it makes a lot of sense to me that God is actively partaking in our lives in an attitude of love while not overriding our decisions.  There is however, an aspect that I struggle with about this theory because when I purposefully choose sin in my life how can God be actively in that moment with me? Clearly in scripture I see a holy God and so I struggle with how he co-exists with me in a sinful environment.

Tom,

Essential Kenosis seems to be the option to go with here.  Truly being thankful would require that God be actively open to relationship with us. 

I believe that God wants to bless us here and now.  Jesus announced the kingdom had arrived!  Essential Kenosis appears to have a fundamental belief in a trinitarian universe, where God is inviting us into the divine dance.  I think if we take seriously that the tomb is empty, then our response is to be blessed, and enjoy this world; stopping to give thanks, give mercy (eleeo), and share God’s good news.  It changes the way we live to a thankful posture because God is providing everything good.

Tom,
I appreciated your post, and am enjoying learning about the concept of essential kenosis.  I certainly resonate with the reality that God does respond to us, and interact with us on more of a relational level than what a deterministic view of God would allow for.  It does, however, remind us that we have a large responsibility to cooperate with God!  He has definitely taken risks by entrusting the building of His kingdom into our care! 
E

It’s a good reminder that God empowers and inspires people to act. I need to remember to thank God for enabling people to respond to God. I can thank God for the food, but it is also important I thank the people who helped make the food. It’s a neat reminder that God’s nature is love. God empowers people to respond to God’s activity, which then influences me.
Some Chinese friends joined my family at the Thanksgiving dinner this year. As my family tradition goes, we each say something for which we are thankful. My Chinese friends are atheist. I wonder if my family tradition seems meaningless to them.

Tom,
Your statement, “Our loving Creator inspires and empowers creatures to love. Genuine evil results from the responses these creatures make contrary to God’s call.” was thought-provoking and insightful. The choice of the words, empower and inspire, are motivation to continue to empower and inspire others. When we accept that creating good was the intent of God, we can then realize that the evil in the world is not what he planned or desired. He planned and desired for us to love each other.

Thank you God for all good things. Help us to see the good in others and the joy they are intended to bring.

I think its great that this gives up the chance to step back and really think about what we are thankful for and how we are communicating those thanks. Is important to realize how we say “Thanks you” to God really communicates how we think about God and in turn dictates what we say we are thankful for and how we say thank you. I think it helps me realize that I need to be more direct with my “Thank you’s” and to really understand what I am saying when I tell God thank you. There is tons of Theology in the “Thank you” of life. Wonderful post.

I am thankful that I am getting an education, that I could spend time with friends and family this past weekend, that I get to eat every day, I have money to spend on things I like, and a number of other things. God made all this possible. God constantly blesses me, even when I am a terrible Christian. I do not know if I believe whether or not God is in total control or if he is learning and living the same way we are. My theology is tentative, but my thanks still goes to God. In the end, I guess it is interesting to think about the theology of why and who and what we are thankful for. But at the same time, it just seems unnecessary to me. We as Christians serve a powerful creator who deserves our thanks and praises. In the end, I don’t care what you say as a Christian, the good things in your life are inevitably a result of God’s work, be thankful for it. I’m sure he would appreciate that more than you trying to figure out exactly why you are thankful for it.

I thought this was a great reminder to be thankful with reflecting on the Thanksgiving Holiday.  It is important to reflect and give thanks to God for all the great in our lives but what about the bad in our lives?  Do we not thank God for the bad as well?  Or do we forget about the bad and move on?  Because what if through that bad something good happened or is going to happen?  I just thought i would add that twist to things because the blog as a whole said to be thankful for the good.  But it is easy to be thankful for the good and hard to be thankful for the bad.

I found the given facts for each belief equally passionate, but tended to personally agree with the Kenosis view. I do believe that people are given free will because of God’s love for us and that genuine evil results from people’s ignorance to God’s plan for their lives. I found the Classical free-will theology interesting in that it says “God

voluntarily give freedom to others, but has the power to take it away to prevent any genuine evils from occurring.” I believe that while God does not overpower His creation due to His omnibenevelence,He certainly has the power to do so if He wanted to.

I thought this was a helpful reminder, even being a few days past Thanksgiving. It can be difficult for me to remember the true reasons for Thanksgiving, let alone theologies of Thanksgiving.
Giving thanks to others, as well as God is so important for people to do. So often we forget the latter.

Wow, Dr. Oord. You do every time you blog you really think outside the box. I enjoyed reading this blog because it got me to think. How do I thank God? Do I thank Him only when good comes or do I thank God for the stuff that isn’t so great in my life?

“Essential kenosis says God’s eternal nature of love includes giving freedom and/or agency to creation. Because God’s nature is this kind of love, God cannot fail to provide, cannot withdraw, and cannot override the freedom and agency God necessarily gives.” I really like this quote. It tells us who God is. It’s “short, sweet and to the point” as my Youth pastor used to say.

Thanks for all your blogging!
Cody

This blog really opened up my eyes a little bit. I mean, way to take theology up for the holidays (even though this was a year ago). But, in all seriousness, it was interesting to read what other people who have different theologies from my own might give thanks for. Not only that, but to whom are they thanking.
Then the kenosis argument really hit me hard. I was thinking after reading this how many years we go around the table at our thanksgiving meal and talk about what we are thankful for. This is a good tradition, but I can’t remember ever really giving thanks to God on thanksgiving (especially around the table). Or at least not thanks to God for the things I mentioned at the dinner table (we always prayed for our meal). Anyway, it’s humbling to read this and remember to thank God on thanksgiving for the actions and love God showed. Not only on thanksgiving, but daily being thankful.

This is a good reminder for Thanksgiving because essential kenosis suggests that not only should we be thankful for the love that God provide for us in the good events in our lives, but also in the bad events in our lives. Even though God cannot invade the free will of free agents, God still provides love to the fullest even in the bad event of our lives.

I thoroughly appreciated this post. I feel like we often get in the mindset of thanks without actually investing into having a grateful heart or connecting our thanks to the actual action of and relationship with God. Christians often thank God out of obligation or necessity, merely when they get what they want or feel like they have to. I think this post insightfully describes a more holistic and thoughtful approach to thankfulness.

I really appreciate this post. I have often been concerned at Thanksgiving with my family about the way we pray. We often thank God for things as though he completely controlled the situation. I also feel that we get so caught up in thanking God for our own blessings we forget about those who are going through pain and suffering. Thanksgiving is not only a time for great reflection and praise, but also an incredible opportunity to serve others who have very little to be thankful for.

I was very intrigued about the different ways people celebrate and give thanks on thanksgivings. Most times around the holidays your families don’t show much thankfulness to be together. I think that maybe we should stop being thankful to the materialistic blessing we have received and start being thankful for the things that really matter. Giving thanks to God and for others is more important and we should remember to do so.

This is certainly a different way of approaching the holiday of Thanksgiving.  Unfortunately we have lost much in the commercialization of this holiday.  It seems to be mostly about eating and shopping these days than our theology behind our thankfulness.

I am a huge fan of continually giving thanks as it orientates the self to what is truly important in life. I have never pondered the idea of who others give thanks to as I have a dynamic loving relationship with Christ. My mind wanders to Muslims that live here in the states as from what I understand they lean towards a very controlling God and how does that effect their life of giving thanks especially if they have not been able to live a comfortable life or one that is fulfilled.